Was Clinton doomed from the start?

I'm sure some of you regularly checked Jay Cost's RCP post-primary analysis of the various states throughout the primary season.  The dominate themes of these essays were that Obama has his coalition and Clinton has hers and that he wins venues where his coalition predominates and she wins where hers predominates.  Sure, there were variations of degree and there may have been some minor exceptions, but these coalitions held pretty steady througout the primaries.  The more striking conclusion that might be generated from this phenomena is that these coalitions were relatively impervious to campaigning and other contemporaneous events.

Throughout this campaign, Obama supporters have often jeered that Clinton supporters thought only certain states and voters matter.  Of course, that was a mistatement of our positions.  Our position could more appropriately be characterized as the belief that our coalition was more expandable outside of the Democratic party because our coalition came closer to resembling voters with lower allegiance to the Democratic party while Obama's was more heavily populated with those who never vote Republican.

Our belief may or may not be supported in November, but the conclusion is inescapable that our belief did not triumph in the nomination process.  In this nomination process, it was the Obama coalition that was the winner if the candidate played the game smartly and the Obama campaign played the game almost like they invented it.

The core of Obama's coalition consisted of very heavy support from three groups:

1) Youth

  1. African Americans
  2. The left-leaning and, at least somewhat angry, "anyone but Clinton" faction

Clinton never had a chance with these three groups.  They were determined to derail her candidacy.  For the first group, she was way too yesterday for most of them.  For the second group, she was in the way of the nomination of the first viable black candidate.  

For the last group, they were never going to forgive her and Bill's Republican enabling.  They'll never forgive her for the authorization vote (and a few other departures) and they'll never forgive Bill for such things as triangulation and the 1994 midterm losses (Oddly, both Truman and Eisenhower had losses in the same range but no one ever seems to remember them and they are invoked as good presidents across the political spectrum). This group was emboldened by the 2006 midterms and disenchantment with Bush to flex their muscle (apparently, all the rejections of them before that are conveniently forgotten).  Now was the time to throw off those DLC chains!   A couple of friends of mine who are strong Obama supporters (and surely belong in this group) pretty much admitted to me that "anyone but Clinton" was their entering paradigm and they didn't decide completely on Obama until it was clear to them that he was the viable Anti-Clinton.  Their emotional investment came naturally after their commitment decision.

The first of these groups (Youth), considering their strong Obama margins, was a formidable block everywhere.  Combine them with the second group (AAs), with their virtually monolithic support for Obama, and, in any state where African Americans were a significant minority, the odds against Clinton were virtually insurmountable.  The third group became particulary significant in caucus states (and in some very Red Republican states with a more homogenously liberal Democratic minority) where their participation and influence far exceeded their overall population numbers in very low turnout affairs.

The Obama campaigned maximized its strengths to deliver an impressive tactical electoral victory.  Obama's coalition did not widen as the campaign reached its final period.  In fact, it may have narrowed, but the coalition was stronger than expected and its strengths delivered what now appear to be crushing blows in February.

OK, now what?  The second and third groups have very little expansion potential outside of the Democratic party.  For the first group, hard to tell.  In the past, younger voters have often been a little more fickle than older ones.  Something we don't know yet is how large is the youth vote that has not participated in the Democratic primary and where will it go?  Are they a silent majority or a silent minority of the young?  I would presume they are more right leaning or more apathetic than those who partipated in the primary, but how much more of either of those?  I don't know.

Finally, there is the Clinton coalition.  Most of it will vote for Obama but what will be the size of the minority that doesn't?  That is a key question.



Display:


Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

The idea that Clinton (or Obama) supporters will sit on their hands if Obama (or Clinton) is the nominee is a silly, navel-gazing meme that pops up in nearly every contested primary. A handful of self-centered and bitter people will refuse to vote for the guy who beat their guy, but the vast, overwhelming majority not only aren't upset about whatever machinations, real or imagined, that occurred this season, but are genuinely excited about electing a Democrat.


by PantherDem on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:08:08 PM EST

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

Rewrite history much?

She had a huge African American following until Bill and Geraldine blew it for her.

I agree with you that she never stood a chance with the more progressive, activist antiwar arm of the party.


by rf7777 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:09:04 PM EST

I believe that is a self serving interpretation (none / 0)

It was Obama's viability that lead African Americans to abandon Clinton. The rest was just rationalizing (and mostly false) window dressing.


by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Viability was key. (2.00 / 1)

Bingo.  African Americans were watching Iowa (white voters) very closely to see what happened.  If he hadn't won, they were not going to waste their vote on someone not viable.  After Iowa, the floodgates opened and Hillary was abandoned like yesterday's newspaper.  


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

Her following was solid, but not huge at the beginning. I saw polls with her about about 60% support in the A.A. community, but you had to wonder how long it would last as more African American votes got to know Obama better and as he proved himself a more viable candidate.


by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

That was only because they were not sure of Obama's viability. They made Bill Clinton the scapegoat in order to justify their own racism. They had willing collaborators in the media especially from MSNBO.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

Obama was already leading in AA votes before Feraro make her remarks. Indeed, she probably woudln't have made them if Clinton were still leading in the polls among AA voters.


by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

This is why people like Lombard are doomed from the start.

Look at point 3,  left leaning liberals.

I am a proud liberal.

I feel my ideals are so important for our country I WOULD NEVER VOTE against them.

I feel most true progressives would feel the same.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:10:39 PM EST

Strange visceral reaction to this post (none / 0)

You need to develop some other interests because you take all of this way too personally and emotionally.


by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:21:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The party future needs Clinton's voters (none / 0)

beyond November, to leave the Clinton coalition in the cold is to give Repubs major opportunity to pick them up in future congressional elections. We're safe for this cycle but in as short as 2 years from now the Repubs could re-brand themselves.

To keep this coalition in the Dem fold by acknowledging Clinton's supporters would stave this off for a while at least.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:14:46 PM EST

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (none / 0)

Personally, I was always of the thought that she was crazy to run and that she would have a tough time with the media. I believe at least 20% of her supporters will go with McCain or not cast a vote this November.


by Liberty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:41:23 PM EST

You might have been right (none / 0)

I remember Bill Clinton in an interview well before her announcement where he said that he didn't know yet if she should run, or whether she could win (even the nomination) if she did run, even though he thought she would be an outstanding president if she were elected.  He may have feared the same things you express and wasn't sure she should put herself through that.


by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You might have been right (2.00 / 1)

The Clintons have always been considered as unworthy to reside at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The DC market has always been after them, defining the pair as classless, unsophisticated, inferior non-blue-blooded politicians. Take note of the aftermath of the Whitewater investigation and the treatment by the press; the refusal to acknowledge that the Clintons were clean.

I admire the Clintons today more than I have the past two decades. If she doesn't pull this out, my hope is that the two of them embark on the philanthropic causes near and dear to them and hit the private sector in peace....both have given enough to this party as far as I am concerned...


by Liberty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You might have been right (none / 0)

I remember Bill Clinton in an interview well before her announcement where he said that he didn't know yet if she should run, or whether she could win (even the nomination) if she did run, even though he thought she would be an outstanding president if she were elected.  He may have feared the same things you express and wasn't sure she should put herself through that.


by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (2.00 / 1)

Americans were predisposed to hate Hillary from the beginning.  She never had a shot because the VRWC so thoroughly poisoned us against her for the past 20 years.  There are broad segments of society that categorically dismiss her as the daughter of Satan without even listening to facts.  Tragic, really.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:48:35 PM EST

She was doomed when she hired Mark Penn (none / 0)

Had she not made that fateful decision and instead had chosen almost any other strategist in the business, I sincerely believe she would have wrapped it up on Super Tuesday.

She was a great candidate. She had an incompetent campaign.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:23:32 PM EST

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (1.00 / 1)

Eh.  He just out-campaigned her.  Her Super Tuesday strategy didn't account for the MoveOn netroots.  Then she was labeled a racist and lost all hope of any AA vote.  Time to decide if you will support Obama, McCain, or abstain.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:32:43 PM EST

Re: Was Clinton doomed from the start? (2.00 / 1)

I think if her war vote was different (or non-existent) she'd be the nominee by now, likely with Obama as her VP nominee.

She'd still have the same values to appeal to liberals, but without the anchor that is Iraq tied to her ankle.  Obama would have had a much less clear line of attack for his campaign.  He would have still done very well, because of the youth vote and new voters he's attracted, but she would have cut his margins by a few percentage points in every demographic and every primary or caucus.  His SDs would have come more slowly, and would be fewer.

In other words, his ability to attract new voters would make him the clear VP choice for her and would set up the Dems for (Lord willing) 16 years of progressive government.  

As an Obama supporter, I can honestly say that things might have been better that way, for the Party.  It would have been a much more traditional path, to win and set up a future nominee.  But it's all contingent upon her having NOT voted for the war.  And while Clinton supporters can offer passionate explanations of that vote, that just isn't how it's perceived.

Of course, IF she runs as his VP choice, she'll be largely forgiven that vote by the time 2016 rolls around.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:33 PM EST


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