Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments

You have to hand it to Rev. Wright - he's no wimp and he sure is quotable.  Jerome links on the front page to his latest potentially damaging public remarks.  I don't think Obama should bear guilt by association for these but I'm confident he will be asked about them.

In one passage, he praises Farrakhan (who is supplying bodyguards for him).  Included in that passage was the line below that exemplifies what is so wrong with this man's thinking and the thinking of those who follow him:

"Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn't make me this color."

Comments:

Uh...Reverend...you have not lived your life in chains or in slavery.  By all accounts, you have lead a successful (and somewhat lucrative life) of a free man with significantly more authority and power than the overwhelming majority of people in this country.  And you have managed to do this while publicly spitting in the face of the US government and jeering at white people and other non-African American groups.  Doesn't sound like a slave to me.

Even more striking is the last clause: "he didn't make me this color."  Of course, not.  Your parents did, perhaps as a conduit from God.  But, your words confuse me?  Are so saying the you were somehow cursed with blackness?  Gee, that's pretty self-hating.  Could this be the source of your anger?



Display:


Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Excuse me. What color are you?


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:25:02 PM EST

White, if you must know (none / 0)

And now I ask, so what if I am?


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: White, if you must know (none / 0)

ok. I was just curious.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Reverend's comments (none / 0)


    are pathetic, racist and full of nothing but hatred and bitterness.

   He's a disgrace to the pulpit.


by southernman on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:26:41 PM EST

Re: The Reverend's comments (none / 0)

If you grew up serving the country , saw extreme racial injustice , adn then notice things haven't changed enough, you would be one bitter guy too.

Might i remind people, Wright is not running for election. I think Farrakhan is a little out there for me, but why should Wright be obligated to condemn him? If Wright had to condemn every person he noticed doing bad things, he would spend his whole life just condemining people.


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

I am sick and tired of white and black people this election cycle.  Overtly sensitive and the biggest whiners on the planet.

/The rest of the world gets it, you guys don't like each other


by obamaforprez on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:29:12 PM EST

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

This diary so a complete lack of understanding


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:32:22 PM EST

You're right about one thing (none / 0)

I do lack an understanding of how successful people who have managed to climb heights that relatively few people achieve cling to (and propagate) rage over their claimed status of victimhood.

I think I am too pragmatic, realistic, and hardheaded to ever acquire that type of understanding.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right about one thing (none / 0)

Oh really. were you there before he achieved fame at  the pulpit. Can you say for a fact that Wright or his beloved ones did not experience a lot of racism growing up?


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're right about one thing (none / 0)

Well, he most certainly wasn't a slave in chains.

Sheesh.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:32:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cardboard, I have some questions (none / 0)

From what I can tell, you are a well educated and reasonably successful individual.  But, I'm just wondering -----

Just how much do you expect from this country and its people?

Does this country really give people like you (or me) significantly less than any other country?  Or, in reality, do we get about as much (or more) in opportunities and respect as we would anywhere else?

Just what would this nation and its people have to do to make you happy with us?  Is that even possible?


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We will have to martyr the democratic party (2.00 / 1)

 and nominate Obama so he can lose to McCain in November.  Perhaps then the debt will be paid and we can move the hell on from all this.  


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You may be right my friend (none / 0)

But I fear that you are not.  The people whose livelihoods depend upon the books never being balanced will see that the debt remains open for as long as possible.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A sad commentary on the state of our Union (none / 0)

(or dis-Union as the case may be).  


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cardboard, I have some questions (none / 0)

Are you really this ignorant about how life was for opeople of Wright's generation? Give me one reason why blacks of that generation who read about a number of lynchings not have the same revenge motivation as we do towards Al Quaeda? Would you have preferred if Black AMericans achieved their own closure by going after their version of Al Quaeda which was that portion of white America that either committed those vile racial acts or condoned them?


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They would have lost a race war (none / 0)

And I don't care how much nonsense you spout.  One isn't entitled to a free pass due to the fact that one has the same skin color as a victim in the past.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They would have lost a race war (none / 0)

Exactamundo.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They would have lost a race war (none / 0)

Wright is actually from that generation. Obama isn't. That is why obama doesn't do what you claim Wright shouldnt be doing.

ASking him to shut up would be like asking you to shut up about Al Quaeda becauase you werent there in the towers on 9/11.


by Pravin on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 11:08:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Al Quaeda is a sworn enemy (none / 0)

White Americans are not the sworn enemies of black Americans.  Some of each race just choose to view the other that way.


by lombard on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Seeing Wright in context on Bill Moyers confirmed what I have suspected; Wright is deeply intelligent, thoughtful, and patriotic in meaningful ways that involve ongoing service and self sacrifice to community and country. My life experience could not be more different than Wright's, but I think he seems like an excellent teacher. I appreciate his candor and honesty and I can see why so many have joined his congregation. Wouldn't it be something if we could learn a little more about one another through this historic campaign and come away with a richer understanding of the American Experience?


by grasshopper on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

I can understand that the Rev Wright grew up in a time that still oppressed black people and racism was out in the open.

However, I am getting tired of the slavery & chains comments.  Yeah, yeah, call me a racist.  No - you misunderstand - I DO realize there is still racism in the US - hell, there is racism all over the world, and in all colors, not just towards blacks.  Same with sexism - in the US and all over the world.

I do not think that all men want to keep in the kitchen, barefoot & pregnant.  Times have moved on;  yes, there are some sexist pigs out there, but that is not the norm (at least in the company I keep).  Same with racism - it is not the norm in the company I keep

The US was almost split apart over slavery - we fought a civil war and pitted brother against brother for that cause.  Blacks, whites, men, women, children - all marched for civil rights in the 1950/1960's.  

Rev Wright is flaming the fires of division with his speech.  Obama gave a speech on race a month or so ago, I wonder if Rev Wright watched it at all.  


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:32:42 PM EST

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Its like how we're guiltripped on the Holocaust, even though Israel has absolutely nothing to do with teh Holocaust.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

???


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

I thought we were throwing out inanate and possibly offensive things that we're "soiuck of" I mean the original commenter can't have really meant what he siad.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

are you referring to me?  or to the diarist?

btw, I am a she, not a he, otherwise, I wouldn't have made my kitchen comment.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

I have still notced plenty of white racists. I actually support Bill Cosby when he goes after fellow African Americans for not doing enough in education. But you just do not deny realities. You act like most white americans were marching down south. What an insult to the whites and jewish americans who actually do march. Such brave ones were not the majority.


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Well, that is why I stated in my circle.  I do not deny racism.  Nor do I deny sexism.

how am I denying reality?  It seems that you think that whites didn't march?  I hate to break it to you, but they did - it was before my time, as I was born in '64


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

Seriously going on and defending Louis Farrakhan. That alone should define Rev Wright as someone from out space.  Louis Farrakhan must be one of the worst persons in america.  He is hate mister who is not only anti-white, anti-Jew, but PSYCO.

Louis Farrakhan.  Now i want to see some BO start defending Louis Farrakhan who may be the biggest racist in america.

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:34:48 PM EST

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

why do you want to see Bo defend Farakhan ??

besides gov ed rendell who supports hillary already defended farakhan


"How long have I been at this, like five weeks?" -Simple Sarah 08'
by wellinformed on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Obama denounced and rejected Farrakhan - remember?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

He didn't want to - Hillary pretty much forced him to do so during the debate by calling his initial response weak.


by mikes101 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

You got that dead wrong.  Obama said he denounced the remarks. Then Clinton said do you reject them. And he said, sure, denounce and reject.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

It would be too soon if I never heard the words Reverend Wright ever again.

What has become of the political discourse in this country when a pastor is the primary focus of discussion?

No wonder almost half of the country elects to stay out of the political arena.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:41:18 PM EST

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Yeah, its too bad that Obama had to make such a big deal about his church and his spiritual mentor.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

I found the phrase "he didn't make me this color" to be very odd, as well.  Put in context, he was suggesting that being "this color" was bad, or some sort of punishment.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:44:41 PM EST

Yes, that's what I thought, too (none / 0)

And I thought, WOW, what a statement!

I wonder how many white women would feel cursed if they looked like Diahann Carroll, Tyra Banks, or Regina Hall?


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, that's what I thought, too (none / 0)

Do not take that statement literally. He was referring to his position as a black man. Guess what , despite his power, he won't be welcome in certain neighborhoods.


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:12:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, if he were white, he wouldn't be either (none / 0)

Take it from me.  I lived for a number of years in black neighborhoods and black people are perfectly capable of dishing it out, too.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, if he were white, he wouldn't be either (none / 0)

bingo


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, if he were white, he wouldn't be either (none / 0)

We are not taking about simple prejudice once you get into a neighborhood. We are talking about actually being "blacked out" of even buying a house in certain neighborhoods or memberships at clubs.

Whites are not exactly living in Mugabe's zimbabwe over here.


by Pravin on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 10:54:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Blacks aren't living in 1960s South Africa either (none / 0)


by lombard on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

It's quite apparent that the good reverand is enjoying all this ink.


by handsomegent on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:46:55 PM EST

Can we please stop talking about this (2.00 / 1)

idiot, please?

He is an idiot and there is no other word that can describe him better. If he does not realize that his comments (especially that disastrous Q&A session where he showed extreme arrogance and reiterated the 9/11 remarks and took a swipe at Zionism in the mix) are hurting Senator Obama, he does not deserve to be handed a microphone, listened to, talked to, asked questions and even breathe the air he breathes.

I am quite frankly tired of his guts and he needs to disappear. Crawl under a rock and hibernate forever.


by likelihood zero on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:50:10 PM EST

Uh no, not after the 'context' BS (none / 0)

Sorry, but after the harping on 'context' we've been hearing around here from Obama and his Obamatons...

We all got to see the ugly context, up close and personal, last night.

We are going to now delve into this further...


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:41:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All I see is a bunch of Clinton supporters (none / 0)

hoping like hell that this sticks to Obama.  Personally, I was not surprised nor offended by anything the reverend has said.  My goodness, he isn't running for political office and seeing as our experience informs our views, I find nothing he said to be particularly unusual.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:51:14 PM EST

Re: All I see is a bunch of Clinton supporters (2.00 / 1)

I'm an Obama supporter and I am offended.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Context, man, context!!! (none / 0)

You obviously haven't allowed yourself to see his comments in context.

lmao


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:42:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a Clinton supporter (2.00 / 1)

and I was not offended.

I listened to his entire speech via Youtube.  His speech was beautiful and nearly brought me tears more than once.  After his speech he was asked a number of hostile questions and got testy.  The man is not a politician and he is not necessarily accustomed to this kind of criticism.  I understood that he got a little angry.

Since he is taking so much heat for him comments about Louis Farrakhan, let me know quote his response from the transcript at the New York Times.

As I said on the Bill Moyers' show, one of our news channels keeps playing a news clip from 20 years ago when Louis said 20 years ago that Zionism, not Judaism, was a gutter religion.

And he was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter is being vilified for, and Bishop Tutu is being vilified for. And everybody wants to paint me as if I'm anti-Semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said 20 years ago.

I believe that people of all faiths have to work together in this country if we're going to build a future for our children, whether those people are -- just as Michelle and Barack don't agree on everything, Raymond (ph) and I don't agree on everything, Louis and I don't agree on everything, most of you all don't agree -- you get two people in the same room, you've got three opinions.

So what I think about him, as I've said on Bill Moyers and it got edited out, how many other African-Americans or European-Americans do you know that can get one million people together on the mall? He is one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century. That's what I think about him.

I've said, as I said on Bill Moyers, when Louis Farrakhan speaks, it's like E.F. Hutton speaks, all black America listens. Whether they agree with him or not, they listen.

Now, I am not going to put down Louis Farrakhan anymore than Mandela would put down Fidel Castro. Do you remember that Ted Koppel show, where Ted wanted Mandela to put down Castro because Castro was our enemy? And he said, "You don't tell me who my enemies are. You don't tell me who my friends are."

Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains. He did not put me in slavery. And he didn't make me this color.

I did disagree with his comments about HIV and I am not comfortable with his statements on that topic.  I also don't agree with his characterization of the US foreign policy.  But overall, I thought he defended himself well.  He did nothing to demonstrate that he is unpatriotic.  In fact, this was my favorite comment:

I served six years in the military. Does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am a Clinton supporter (none / 0)

Did Cheney say GD amerikkka?  Did Cheney say the US created AIDS to kill the black folk?

Then why are you still harping on Cheney?

Ffs, we're in an election here...Cheney will be gone in 9 months.  It's time to get over him.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:43:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am a Clinton supporter (none / 0)

Did you watch or read his speech and the question and answer session?

He made some very inappropriate comments.  But he did finally explain the context of the "God Damn America" line.

MODERATOR: In light of your widely quoted comment damning America, do you think you owe the American people an apology? If not, do you think that America is still damned in the eyes of God? REVEREND WRIGHT: The governmental leaders, those -- as I said to Barack Obama, my member -- I am a pastor, he's a member. I'm not a spiritual mentor, guru. I'm his pastor.

And I said to Barack Obama, last year, "If you get elected, November the 5th, I'm coming after you, because you'll be representing a government whose policies grind under people." All right? It's about policy, not the American people.

And if you saw the Bill Moyers show, I was talking about -- although it got edited out -- you know, that's biblical. God doesn't bless everything. God condemns something -- and d-e-m-n, "demn," is where we get the word "damn." God damns some practices.

And there is no excuse for the things that the government, not the American people, have done. That doesn't make me not like America or unpatriotic.

So in Jesus -- when Jesus says, "Not only you brood of vipers" -- now, he's playing the dozens, because he's talking about their mamas. To say "brood" means your mother is an asp, a-s-p. Should we put Jesus out of the congregation?

When Jesus says, "You'll be brought down to Hell," that's not -- that's bombastic, divisive speech. Maybe we ought to take Jesus out of this Christian faith.

No. What I said about and what I think about and what -- again, until I can't -- until racism and slavery are confessed and asked for forgiveness -- have we asked the Japanese to forgive us? We have never as a country, the policymakers -- in fact, Clinton almost got in trouble because he almost apologized at Gorialan (ph). We have never apologized as a country.

Britain has apologized to Africans, but this country's leaders have refused to apologize. So until that apology comes, I'm not going to keep stepping on your foot and asking you, "Does this hurt? Do you forgive me for stepping on your foot?" if I'm still stepping on your foot.

And a defense of his patriotism.  Link upthread.

MODERATOR: Some critics have said that your sermons are unpatriotic. How do you feel about America and about being an American?

REVEREND WRIGHT: I feel that those citizens who say that have never heard my sermons, nor do they know me. They are unfair accusations taken from sound bites and that which is looped over and over again on certain channels.

I served six years in the military. Does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:07:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why Did Media Give Wright All That Air Time? (none / 0)

It is time for the Republican-controlled Media to give this Wright controversy some fairness and balance and to enquire of Hillary Clinton and her surrogates the following:

Is it true that, (1)  Hillary surrogate, Congresswoman Shiela Jackson Lee, is also a devotee of Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright; that he's been preaching at her home church, where she is actively involved, annually for the past 15 years and has an open invitation to return, and, that she sat in the pews for his visits and did not bat an eye?  AND

Is it true that (2) Hillary surrogate, Rev. Marcia Dyson was not only a longtime member of Trinity United Church of Christ but also still considers Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright her pastor? That Rev. Marcia Dyson's seminary education, in part, was sponsored by Trinity UCC and encouraged by Rev. Wright? And was it  not at Trinity were she first met her husband, Rev. Dr. Michael Dyson, who's been very vocal in his defense of Rev. Wright.?

And, lastly to Hillary Clinton, that if Rev. Wright would not have been her Pastor, then why did she and Bill when going through Impeachment, turn to Rev. Wright for Prayer and Support and invite him to the White House?  These things should be asked and answered.

And, finally, why would a Republican-controlled Media give a "retired" Rev. Wright all this attention and air time, if not to try to destroy Barack Obama!? --  Their true Fear!  That is why "daily" 24/7, the Republican-controlled media and talking heads are build-up Hillary, tear/smear down Obama, while McCain courts African-Americans that Clintons have ailenated by their "kitchen sink strategy, hoping all the while that she will become the Democratic nominee, so they can unleash the  "arsenol" of weapons they have against her.  Something they have been planning for years!  

I submit, the Media is not our friend!

And, it is now time for the Parting of the Ways. I now understand why Barack thinks some people are bitter -- he has been conditioned to that by his Pastor to think that some people are bitter, although Barack was not subject himself to this bitterness!


by bacalove on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:52:02 PM EST

Blah, blah, blah (2.00 / 1)

Save it.

This diary isn't about Obama or his association with Wright.  The diary is about what is wrong with Rev. Wright's thinking.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:03:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blah, blah, blah (none / 0)

What's wrong with his thinking?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:12:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I didn't know better I'd think you were joking (none / 0)

My view is pretty self-explanatory.  Read my comments in the diary if you really care.

You may also want to read my questions to Cardboard (above).  I'd say they are equally applicable to you.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I didn't know better I'd think you were jok (none / 0)

African-Americans are an oppressed group. Examples of successful African-Americans do not change this.

As I did earlier, I'll quote MLK re what we expect..

""'what more will the Negro want?"  "What will it take to make those demonstrations end?" Well I would like to reply with another rhetorical question: Why do white people seem to find it so difficult to understand that the Negro is sick and tired of having reluctantly parceled out to him those rights and privileges which all others receive upon birth or entry in America?  I never cease to wonder at the amazing presumption of much of white society, assuming that they have the right to bargain with the Negro for his freedom.  This continued arrogant ladling out of pieces of the rights of citizenship has begun to generate a fury in the Negro.  Even so, he is not pressing for revenge or for conquest or to gain spoils, or to enslave, or even to marry the sisters of those who have injured him.  What the Negro wants - and will not stop until he gets - is absolute and unqualified freedom and equality here in this land of his birth and not in Africa or in some imaginary stake.  The Negro no longer will be tolerant of anything less than his due right and heritage."


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough (none / 0)

And now I want you to describe to me exactly how our society has failed to provide YOU (and I mean you personally!) with relative freedom (with all due respect to Dr. King, no one has unqualified freedom) and equality?

And, if you can't, I rest my case.  And maybe you might think about resting yours for awhile.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair enough (2.00 / 1)

Let's see. I went to a substandard public school and came out under-educated. Faced housing discrimination. Employment discrimination. Violence because of the color of my skin. Harassment by police officers.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:04:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, let's talk about these (none / 0)

From the way you write, you don't seem so undereducated to me.  Secondly, were there students at this school who came out pretty well educated?  If you felt deficient, maybe that wasn't purely the function of the school as much as it was a personal choice or the fact that strict learning standards were not promoted at home.  Just asking.

What housing and employment discrimination did you face?  Were you prevented from obtaining certain preferred housing because you were black or because of a financial or personal situation?  Did you fail to get a certain job because you were black or because there were others who were more qualified or seemed better choices at the time?  Maybe some of them were even minorities.

I'm willing to believe that you may have been hassled by police officers but so have I for hanging around smoking a cigarette around certain buildings at night (and I am white and middle aged).  

As far as violence goes, well, that exists regardless of race in our society and blacks are more likely to commit violence and other crimes against whites than the reverse.  I have been burglarized numerous times and had roommates mugged in my younger days by black people.  How many white people have broken into your house and stolen your stuff or mugged you?


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, let's talk about these (none / 0)

I'm a 40 year old man. Your questions show your ignorance about America.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does your age have to do with it? (none / 0)

Some of the experiences I described occurred in my youth.  Others when I was older.  I still remember them.  So would you even if you were 70.

But you describe feeling discrimination at various points in your life.  Those could have happened anytime in your life.  I was just asking you to reflect honestly on those experiences because the convenient explanation may not be the most appropriate one.

But your response is a familiar one.  Engage in a dialogue, then protest to being insulted when you don't get the response or reaction you want.  You should know me well enough by now.  If you're looking for a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not that guy.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does your age have to do with it? (none / 0)

You're not engaging in dialogue.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They were honest questions (none / 0)

Even if you didn't like them.

You make assertions of discrimination but you give no evidence to back them up.

Tell you what, would you rather this answer....

Sob...sob...sob...I'm so sorry for you, you poor black man...we are such a terrible country and white people are so callous and evil...everything you say must be true because you couldn't possibly be wrong in your interpretations and I'm surprised you're not more angry than you are.  

Happy now?


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They were honest questions (none / 0)

"""You're not engaging in dialogue.  """

lmao...I know you are but what am I?

Im rubber, youre glue...

et al, etc etc blah blah blah.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:48:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair enough (none / 0)

I went to a substandard rural school. Was harassed by the local police because I was poor and white. Was denied job opportunities in a small town because I did not come from the right family. Next!


"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"
by RedstateLib on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair enough (none / 0)

Your statements show your ignorance.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course, just dismiss his words (none / 0)

Because all white people, as we know, are all happy, fully employed, well educated, loved, and rich!


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:56:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course, just dismiss his words (none / 0)

Even more ignorance! Fantastic! Keep going!


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course, just dismiss his words (none / 0)

You seem to be somewhat of a caricature.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:49:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair enough (2.00 / 1)

serioulsy is that the only answer you get.

Let me give you an example for what I think what is wrong with rev. wright and some parts of black community. I had once live in a house with five white roommates. We had a party, the cups came and we were pissed of but that was it. I once had two black roommate, we had a party and the cups came, Untill one week later I was hearing about how the cups came only because they were black and it wouldn't happened if they were white.

I am neither white nor black and I am a new immigrant and have been here just for couple of years.In my personal experience I havn't seen equal oppurtunities being provided to everyone. Blacks have advantage geeting into some colleges that they don't deserve.

I do believe that for a fair assesment of the situation of race in America I and the new immigrants like me are better judges than you guys. We don't have racial bias and we are not huanted by the past. In my judgement, the whites has moved on the racial divide but parts of blacks havn't because it is a good excuse for their failure.

You kn


by NewCommer on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK (none / 0)

Whatcha got?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh please. (2.00 / 1)

That's like saying that diaries attacking Bill Clinton aren't about Hillary.  This is completely about Obama.  Would anybody be talking about this if Obama were not running for the nomination?

Can't we just let this go?  Race and religion are too complicated and too sensitive to constructively debate on a public forum in the midst of a heated political campaign.  This crap just plays into the hands of the GOP.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, if you don't believe me, that's your choice (none / 0)

But I said in the diary that I didn't think Obama should be considered associated with these remarks in any way even though he would probably be asked about them.

This diary was about a comment of Wright that I found illustrative of his wrongheaded thinking.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right (2.00 / 1)

You did say that and I apologize.

Again.  Why are we (by that I mean, the blogosphere) talking about this?  I don't think this would be a topic of conversation if Obama weren't running for president.  To me, this is just as irrelevant as diaries about people who may or may not have donated money to the Clinton Foundation.

And I don't necessarily think Wright was defending Farrakhan.  He refused to condemn the man because Farrakhan had never done him any harm.  And in a manner of speaking, Wright has lived part of his life in chains, the chains of racism and segregation.

Again, I should not have directed my earlier comment to you personally.  For that, I apologize.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Apology not necessary (none / 0)

I don't care if he defends Farrakhan.  The black muslims make some positive contributions in the black community and I can understand the appreciation even if they have other troubling characteristics.

I only mentioned Farrakhan because that was the context of the other remarks.  I think these remarks are worth talking about even if they had nothing to do with either presidential candidate because whether your believe that enough is enough or whether you believe that these types of beliefs are understandable and acceptable says a lot about a current and future political divide in this country.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Apology not necessary (none / 0)

psychodrew

""Can't we just let this go? ""

Uh, no such luck.  We're going to delve into the context of these remarks.

We Clinton folk just LOOOOOOVEEE our discussions on context.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:51:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Did Media Give Wright All That Air Time? (none / 0)

Gee, that comment is so profound it ought to be published separately as a diary.

Oh, look! It already has been published as a diary!


by susie on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You think he meant that literally? (2.00 / 1)


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:02:51 PM EST

Re: You think he meant that literally? (none / 0)

Could you provide your literary interpretation of it?


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You think he meant that literally? (2.00 / 1)

Sad. He simply means that he was not oppressed by Farrakhan.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You think he meant that literally? (2.00 / 1)

Do all victims of oppression get one of these?


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You think he meant that literally? (none / 0)

Why would that mean that he hasn't been oppressed. You think CJ Walker wasn't oppressed?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

Wow. This "diary" is offensive on so many levels, I can't believe it hasn't been deleted. I find this particularly offensive:

"And you have managed to do this while publicly spitting in the face of the US government and jeering at white people and other non-African American groups."

Let me remind you that this man, who you say has "spit" in the face of the US government, is a veteran, an ex-Marine, and that when he chose to join the Marines in the early sixties he, as a black man, was denied equal rights, was not allowed to vote in many southern states and routinely encountered overt and open racism. Despite that, he seemed to find some inherent value in the ideals of the nation, and chose to defend them. Today, he continues to struggle against the same pig headed arrogance. That he chooses to do so in a dialect you don't understand  does not mean that he is "jeering at white people", (who is the one playing 'victim' here?) although it points to the distinct posibilty that you are ignorant, classist and yes, racist.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:07:02 PM EST

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

Oh these same kinds of posters would have said the same thing about MLK when he took on the war and white racism by calling out the government and white moderates (really the Northern white liberals) and the white churches.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Really??? You KNOW waht we would have said about MLK.  I think maybe you should reconsider you statement here.  When you start tell us what we would or would not have said about MLK you have crossed the line.  

daivd


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Yes I do because when Wright said something about White people that echoed MLK he was called racist. Here.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

OK,

A then B.   B then C.  You are saying A then C. Try again.  No one called MLK a racist.  Wright's comments were anti-american and anti-white.  Farrakhan the same thing only on seriods.

The only reason you bring up MLK is to try to bully posters.  I have seen a couple of people do this.  It takes reall balls to use the memeory of MLK to make some political point but i guess you feel ok with that.  MLK is an Icon and Rev Wright is not.

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

If you think Wright's comments were anti-American and anti-White then you'd say the same about MLK. It's clear you've never read his words though.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:13:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Dude,

You can stop with trying to use the words of MLK to bully me.  Save that for some child.  I dont have to take you suggestiong that i would say the same thing about MLK.  And i know his words well.

What i see is a bs'er who tries to push people around by suggesting that they are calling MLK anti-white.  Nice try.  What you are really trying to do is suggest anyone you disagree with is racist.  You seem to do this quite a bit.

Maybe you do well with that argument with the weak minded but not me. Someone who uses race for political gain doesnt know anything about race and what it means.  But of course i will wait for you next bs post about how MLK said this and as such i am calling MLK x.  Yawn.

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:18:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Bully you? You mean that you want to ignore the fact that the words your calling Wright were used against MLK when he talked about whites, America, & imperialism. Sorry. Not going to let you ignore it.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Blab blab blab my words were used against MLK. A priori i said these things about MLK.  Grow up.  I am not interested in having some try to bully me by playin race.  I am not going to let you ignore it.  Save this for the foolish you try to bully around, DUDE.

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Yeah playin race by bringing up historical facts.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

You seem a little bitter here on being called out on your words.  Dont be "bitter" by clinging to your so called historical facts.  Lets all agree not to be "bitter" and angry.  

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Called out? Denial isn't calling me out. You're not knowledgeable enough to call me out. You've reduced MLK to the "I have a dream speech".  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

MLK believed in America, he didn't condemn it - he felt that we could move forward.  He made sure his statements were based on fact, not some wack-job theories.

MLK was about reconciliation and healing.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:40:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Actually he did condemn America, white churches, white liberals, racism, imperialism, oppression.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

I have reduced MLK.  Again you need to get off playing race to insult me.  You make yourself look foolish.  I have not said anything about MLK so you need to show some truthfullness.  Sad, my guess is this nonsense that you say does push some people around but i dont like being bullied.  Nice try.  You need to get off the putting words in others mouth and then question them on race.  It makes you look "bitter" and if you are clinging to something.

david


by giusd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

What's foolish is that you don't know that MLK said many of the same things that Wright has been condemned for.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:50:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

What's foolish is the fact that you don't have a clue what that great man said time and again. Would you like me to put some of his sermons on here? Judge for yourself if he condemned this "oh so great country" during his time. What do you think some of the reasons were that Hoover had the FBI harass Dr. King?


by zep93 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:15:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever, leftist apologist (none / 0)

I'm not playing the victim at all.  I just get irritated at those who are not victims yet insist on being regarded that way in order to keep cohesion among their followers or to keep being able to demand special privileges.

And as far as your shock goes, get over it bub!  The  heyday of your leftist apologist thinking is fast eclipsing.  People who think like me (NOT YOU!) are in the majority and our numbers are growing.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:23:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whatever, leftist apologist (none / 0)

Is name calling all you've got? Yawn. Come back when you grow up enough to defend your position with facts and civility.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Civil to a censorship driven Kossak? Why? (none / 0)

You are uncivil when you suggest that my perfectly reasonable diary should be censored (deleted).  I know that is a Kossak leftist mind frame.  You think that if you can succeed in censoring enough people, their views will disappear.  Doesn't work that way.  They just grow to despise you more.

So just try to keep your head from exploding and learn to live with opposing views.  


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Civil to a censorship driven Kossak? Why? (none / 0)

Heh, good luck with alllll that.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:53:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, and another thing (none / 0)

I respect Wright for his service in the marines.  However, his course in life reveals that he understands that one can live a much more satisfying and successful existence in this country by denouncing it than defending it.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, and another thing (none / 0)

I personally don't give a crap if he was a marine.  I know a lot of marines.  Many of them are total dunderheads.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:54:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (2.00 / 1)

You really skipped right over his point. But more to the point, you cannot possibly claim that the Reverend has lived a charmed life as a black man in this country, nor can you claim that as a preacher who serves the black community that he has not witnessed oppression.

Your argument is disturbingly similar to that which many racists use to justify the termination of social programs which benefit minorities. "They aren't slaves anymore, they should be happy with what they have."

I suggest you take time to consider the full implications of your line of thinking, and I hope on the other side you are able to comprehend that ultimately it is flawed, shallow, and short sighted.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:47:54 PM EST

No, you examine the implications of your thinking (none / 0)

And you can keep your condescending lectures, too.  


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rev. Wright's Amazing Comments (none / 0)

Lombard, get a freaking clue. He served in the military. Are you sure he did not suffer any racist slights. Imagine what that does to a person who voluntarily serves and still gets treated like shit at times. What makes you think he lived a comfortable life? Is living in slavery or a great life the only two options for a black guy?

There are a lot of angry black folk from that generation. More anger than you get from a poseur rapper. But they have hid it for the most part. Just be happy these guys did not seek revenge against white guys of that generation the same way we want to get rid of Al Quaeda who are no worse than the white guys who either lynched , beat black people of that era or actually condoned such acts.


by Pravin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:59:46 PM EST

If you want to be an apoligist for hate, go ahead (none / 0)

But the Democratic party will never win if your attitude is at the front and center of it. The majority of people in this country view guilt as personal - not historical - and will not listen when you tell them that they must bury their heads in shame and tolerate (or even enable) never ending scorn.

I'm sure Wright experienced some racial slights in his day, but the bottom line is that this country has done OK by him and he should try to recognize that once in awhile.


by lombard on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you want to be an apoligist for hate, go ah (none / 0)

"Some racial slights" Are you freaking serious? Do you even have a clue? Do you read only what they taught you in school? You have no idea! You think a dog bearing down on you while protesting your children's rights "some racial slight"? You think being beaten, clubbed, firebombed "some racial slight"?

Or do you think that it doesn't really exist today? Just sometimes, like when you hear it on the news? Have you ever been followed around the store while shopping? Have you ever been denied housing/employment, because of the color of your skin? Ever been stopped by the police for DWB? Ever looked at the statistics for sentencing lengths for minorities?

I'm sure you see these as "some racial slights", but there is a large group of the citizenry that disagrees. And guess what, we are mad as hell! Unless you know what it's like, then don't say it's just "some racial slight".


by zep93 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]